, great projects that are of national greatnesslet's build big dams, let's have big wars, let's have big kumbaya moments from a conservative point of view andi'm not a fan of that. matt welch is certainly not a fan of that. and i always bring it back to my grandparents who left europe because they didn't want to be part of somebody else's national greatness plan. >> richard nixon -- you call him the "colossus of yorba linda." >> yes, well that's a reference to the iluminados trilogy by robert anton wilson and robert shea, where throughout it, it's a great parody book of a kind of conspiracy theory that came out in the early to mid-'70s, and throughout it a character is trying to raise money to build a stature in honor of nixon, they called the "colossus of yorba linda." >> what did you think of him? >> of nixon? >> yes. >> nixon is a -- i think he is a fascinating, psychological type and he was an odious personality, and in a lot of ways, i -- to call him a tragic figure is probably to offer too much grandeur to -- to simply a politician, but it's -- it's fascinating -- what -- what